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PC Modern Warfare 2: It's much worse than you thought

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:19 pm
by Juggalo =8=
At least when it comes to the Multiplayer.

Infinity Ward needs to realize that talking to people in the PC community does not end well for the buzz around its game. The lack of dedicated servers was "announced" during an interview with a gaming podcast, and the interviewers were stunned into silence when they were basically told their community, as they knew it, was dead. They would have to learn to adapt to Infinity Ward controlling all aspects of the servers, or move onto another game.


Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:36 pm
by Juggalo =8=
More recently, Best Buy hosted an online chat between gamers and Mackey McCandlish and Ryan Lastimosa from Infinity Ward. The floor was open for questions, and the pair systematically crushed any hope that the PC version of the game would even attempt to make gamers happy, or allow for what the community has been taking for granted for years. We're going to take a look at some of the more telling questions from this session, and give our thoughts on why this is bad, bad news.

[indent]Josh111: PC Question... What will the max amount of players per map be for PC multiplayer on

Vince-IW: 9v9[/indent]

No matter how good a connection the host has, no matter how powerful your dedicated server was, the maximum number of players online is 18. If you have a larger clan, you're out of luck. If you're waiting for someone to create a custom map to allow larger groups, don't bother. There is no news on mod tools or the ability to add your own content into the locked-down server structure.

Infinity Ward says the maps are balanced for only nine players per side, but they also say there is no lean in the game because the game "isn't balanced for lean." Remember, you can easily answer any inconvenient questions by saying it would ruin the game's balance.

Somehow, I doubt between the past games and this one they've forgotten how to implement lean. Likewise, with the ability to run your own servers players can decide what size games they'd like to play on, or use new maps that are larger. As the system is set up now, however, that is simply not an option.

[indent]Q: Is there a console in the PC version of the game, so we can change our field of view from the xbox's default 65 FOV to 80 also can we tweaks the weapon damage for each gun, removes perks, graphical debris, breathing sway, also thru console like we where able to before or is this all gone?

Vince-IW: We would like you to play the game the way we designed and balanced it.[/indent]

The lack of console commands is going to be something that may not make the headlines, but may be one of the most annoying omissions to the game. The ability to tweak and adjust your play experience through the console is something PC gamers have enjoyed since... well, since there has been modern gaming.

There is a long list of adjustments and tweaks gamers can make to titles like Borderlands on the PC in order to adjust settings. Now you're locked into whatever options Infinity Ward sees fit to put into the menus.

This is, for all intents and purposes, a console game that plays on your PC. You won't be able to make any tweaks, you can't adjust anything, and even better? You won't be able to make recordings of your matches. The question in the chat showed just how far the gulf between what gamers want and what Infinity Ward is giving them has become. "Is there a /record feature? Answer yes... please. We're trying to give you a 'chance'," the gamer asked. The answer was a simple "No."

[indent]DudezTY: Since we cannot kick people in ranked matches, how will we stop hackers who get past VAC?

Mackey-IW: Our goal is to ban hackers from the game.[/indent]

It's a shame that it's impossible to show a jaw dropping on an online chat. There will be no way to kick players, and Infinity Ward seems sure they'll simply be able to keep hackers and cheaters from playing.

That's a pipe dream, of course, but with no control in the hands of the players, no ability to control who is hosting, and no ability to kick or ban players from your game, you're just going to have to take their word for it.

[indent]kaRMa: Please give me a direct answer. On the PC version. Are all games hosted by players, and is there a five-second delay when host migration is in effect?

Vince-IW: yes.[/indent]

Why is this a problem? Because Infinity Ward also revealed in the chat that the game will pick who hosts. You have no control over it. If the host leaves, there will be a five-second delay while the game picks the next best host. Players have no way of controlling who is hosting, and of course we know there will be no dedicated servers.

The host will of course have a ping advantage, which should be mitigated by the software "having a great tolerance for latency," and a five-second pause if the host rage-quits before the game restarts will ruin any flow the game enjoyed until that point.

What's more interesting is that they said ISPs will have to deal with you hosting games, even if there is language against running servers in their usage agreement. Infinity Ward's response is that since this isn't a "permanent" server, they have to deal with it. When someone else asked what would happen if their ISP throttled traffic that comes from running a server, they were told that "only players capable of hosting will host."

They better hope that no ISPs get upset, because there is no way for any player to control who hosts. You can't opt out of hosting. If the host quits, the game stops for five seconds while the next one is selected by the software. This is good for gamers... somehow.

[indent]Moriarte: Ignoring, is the PC version a direct port of the console version?

Mackey-IW: No, PC has custom stuff like mouse control, text chat in game, and graphics settings.[/indent]

This is the amount of work that went into the PC version: you are given the ability to use a mouse, to use text chat, and to adjust graphical settings. Are your fears now put to rest?

To sum it up
We thought the lack of dedicated servers was bad, but now we can add the lack of console commands, the inability to have a say in who hosts the game, a lengthy pause while the game migrates to a new host if the currently selected host quits, no leaning, no option to record matches, and no way to kick or block trouble players, hackers, or cheaters.

You have to wonder if there are any actual PC gamers working at Infinity Ward, as it will be a challenge to find any member of the PC gaming community that will stand up for any of these omissions, not to mention all of them bundled together. At launch, this will be one of the most locked-down, inflexible, and gamer-unfriendly game ever created.

It won't stay that way, of course. The pirates will have the game up on the torrent sites soon, if they haven't already, and the code will be ripped apart and modded to allow everything gamers want. How quickly will dedicated servers pop up for these pirates? It's hard to say... but we have a feeling it won't be long. Those that buy the game legally will have no choice but to play exactly how the developer and publisher want them to. On the other hand, this has given us some incredibly amusing images from the peanut gallery. The images were found on Evil Avatar's discussion thread.

Welcome to the new face of PC gaming.

Copied from...

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:40 pm
by Sarg York=8=
Sounds like a great big line of shit!!!! I was looking forward to this game, not now. I will put my money some place eles for now.

I may reconsider if others in the clan get the game. As for console I don't own one and don't plan to.

I do understand about one of starting a sever and we all play on it for the night that is great, but when the host has to leave those left playing could get bummped to several different severs via ping or what ever. I just don't like how IW is taking control of the game.

Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:48 pm
by Juggalo =8=
Well Sarg, to be quite honest, I don't think most of us here really need all of that. What this really boils down to is:

a. Pubs will be ridden with Hacks since no Anti Cheat can stop the hackers. Nothing in there that says we can't lock someone's server down with a pw to prevent that.
b. Match play will be impossible. Who cares, unless you plan on playing competitively.
c. You can't "modify the config file", ie play around with console commands. How many of us F8'ers really did that anyway? Me but that was only for competition.

I wouldn't get your hopes up but I certainly wouldn't discount the game either. I don't think I'll be getting it right away because I'm not sure what I'll have for internet in a couple months in our new place (in the sticks) but if the internet is available and decent, I'll probably spring for the PS3 version. Sounds like Roach and Deemo might be doing the same. My PC is gettin' old and I just can't do the upgrading shit anymore, lol.

Our worst fear as PC gamers gets worse every year. The games we love are geared more and more towards consoles... That's apparently where the money is.

Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:21 am
by SlyFox =8=
They simply destroyed what was a great game.

I'm not going to get this game unless it's in the bargain bin. I'm not going to lay down close to 70 of my hard earned CDN $$$ for a gimped (IMO) game.

It's like anything political. The powers that be sometimes play God, decide for us and don't give the sheeple a choice, saying "It's for the good of all". Sheeple sometimes wake up and when they do, it's not funny. I'm predicting a major flop in sales for the pc version, watch and see. They have taken too much control out of our hands, it stinks and I don't like it.

Infinity Ward, if anyone sees this post, you are not getting my money. I've bought all pc versions of CoD...I won't buy this one.

That is all.

Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:43 pm
by Lazarus =8=
Gone way past the nails and is now 6 ft under. If I wanted to be a console sheep I'd buy the ps3 version but I'm a PC gamer (For whatever thats worth these days) :(

Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:01 pm
by SlyFox =8=
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that console gamers are sheep. There are pros to playing console, not only cons.

What I'm saying is that IW, as the developer/promoter/whatever, took it upon their collective shoulders to decide what was best for the pc gang and not listen to their pc-player fanbase and ignore what games like MoH and Cod laid down as a foundation to multiplayer gaming.

It is also, in between the lines,a tentative step towards console only versions. They are trying to have us gobble this new type of matching and online "rating" as an innovative step in online multiplayer 'way of doing' and have us accept it as fact a few years from now.

Well, like I said, I'm not eating any of their bread, I'll end up with crumbs.

Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:21 pm
by Sarg York=8=
Juggalo =8= wrote:DudezTY: Since we cannot kick people in ranked matches, how will we stop hackers who get past VAC?

[INDENT]Mackey-IW: Our goal is to ban hackers from the game.[/INDENT]
It's a shame that it's impossible to show a jaw dropping on an online chat. There will be no way to kick players, and Infinity Ward seems sure they'll simply be able to keep hackers and cheaters from playing.

That's a pipe dream, of course, but with no control in the hands of the players, no ability to control who is hosting, and no ability to kick or ban players from your game, you're just going to have to take their word for it.

Copied from...

This another thing I don't like. That if one of us were to host and want to fill the sever up to 18 players, we risk cheaters. With no way to get rid of them. :crash: We all know the cheaters will find a way around the blocks they always do.

Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:00 pm
by Hac =8=
SOBs, They had better fix that crap or there sales will be at the bottom of the crapper.

Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:26 pm
by Cantina Fly =8=
They actually just arrested a guy in Florida who was selling modded xboxes and pirated copies of the game. And if you noticed, there hasn't been any new leaked gameplay footage in the last couple days since the ban hammer got laid on the people dumb enough to take their pirated game on xbox live.

For everyone that's upset that the PC version doesn't look to be shaping up well compared to CoD4, I have to ask, "Did you really think we were part of their target audience?" Back in the day, PC was the crown jewel of the gaming platforms. It hasn't been for some time and a lot of people don't seem to realize that. We're third tier. I do genuinely feel bad for the competitive PC gaming community, but that's an even smaller niche. You know who the real majority of PC gamers are?

"Hi, my name it Timmy. I bought my computer at Best Buy. I do school work on it, surf porn, download all sorts of bit torrent stuff, and sometimes play games that I can't get for my xbox."

When you see the interview with Vince from IW and he talks about "We listened to what our customers wanted." He's talking about Timmy, not us. If you lay out all the pros and cons of developing for a console vs a PC it's a no brainer where to focus the majority of your efforts (and budget.)

If there is one thing that I don't like from the PC community side, it's the high horse sense of entitlement so many gamers seem to have. Just because you spent X thousands of dollars on your l33t rig or because you bought the last 5 games, doesn't hold IW to any obligation to keep catering to you. The answer is really simple, don't buy the game. If enough people take their money elsewhere, one of two things will happen:

a.) IW realize they made a mistake, apologize, and work to correct it.

b.) Future games won't have a PC version at all.

And it's a pure business decision, when they say "We're doing this for our fans," what you should hear is, "The budget for this came out of Marketing and Public Relations."

I admit to being stumped by the whole dedicated server thing. If they didn't like having control over a particular revenue stream, or rather, other people making money off their product, then they could have easily gone the BF2/2142 ranked servers route where they control who can rent servers and charge a license fee to the provider.

Personally, I'm still getting the game so I'll gladly be a litmus test for anyone else that's curious. If I put the hype and drama aside and objectively look at how I played CoD4 and what I enjoyed about it, none of the missing features in MW2 will affect this. I mean seriously, some of my best memories of CoD4 were just the group of us playing a game hosted on Arc's home connection. 9v9? Whoopee, I preferred 6v6 and hated those massive 32+ player games. This wasn't BF2, the maps just weren't designed for that many players and not have it be spammy. I didn't see any friction or drama around here either till we got that dedicated box. Then we started arguing over play lists, HC vs. Core, who should have admin access. It was just stupid. We had people leaving over it for god's sake! (Yes, he came back, but you see my point right?)

Please take my writing with a grain of salt. I'm just trying to represent the other side of the coin. :)

Worst case scenario, MW2 goes up on the shelf next to Quake 4. :p